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Reuby Tuesdays 4 door sedan project

Good Stuff Reubs, I believe the stock B6 engine doesnt have halve of the things you are going for but all good if you are.
There needs to be the water passage at the front of that head like on the RWD B6 engines that will help with plumbing from your radiator rather than have water coming from the back of the head with messy pipes.
 
Dont go for the isotropic polishing, if crank wears out eventually you can get another but normal linishing will be fine.
Look at spending that on maybe a custom ebay inlet manifold rather than the ugly one atm.
The head is exactly as on the Ford Capri which is what I saw the other day.
 
Surpringly the 8v sohc late ford festiva mazda B engine had roler rockers
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Well I got my "Approval in Principle" for the Department of transport during the week.
 
What that basically means for all non-WA folk is that the dept accepts that my proposed modificaitons are within VSB14 guidelines, and that assuming that the modifications are done safely and professionally, and then signed off by an engineer, that i "should" get it licensed.
 
The list of requirements is quite extensive, but nothing that is really out of shape.
 
Aside from makeing the mods safe I have to add the following into the car
 
Seatbelts installed for all seating positions
Collapsable steering column
Split or dual braking system
Two speed windscreen washers 
Windscreen demister
Flashing direction indicator lights front and rear
 
Must have a noise test done
Speedo calibrated and within 10%
Brake test
 
Lucky that most of those mods are already planned or factory options
68 4 Door project (http://www.datsun1000.com/TopicView.asp?TopicID=668)
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Thats really sweet Reubs, you will be the first properly engineered twin cam head A series and with boost also.
 
That mani is top mount rear biased? looks the best so far
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act, Big Brother is watching you - George Orwell United we stand, Divided we fall - Aesop  NAMES IN JAPANESE - LOOKING FOR VB10 SHELL http://iamthewitness.com/ZionistControlOfBritain.html   lovely piece! http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=24688
http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=49039&start=345
 
interisting thread about cooling system setup.
 
it seems that moving the cooling from the front of the head is the prefered method!
68 4 Door project (http://www.datsun1000.com/TopicView.asp?TopicID=668)
Earth First!!! We Can Mine The Other Planets Later
Actually the diagram is for the BP head/block and there is a little difference for the B6 also the B6 on the A series block is again another kettle of fish. The race A series used in speedway and emulated by Sykine on 1200.com was to reverse cool the A series so the cool water goes into the most special part first, the cylinder head.
 
As you can see here the A series cyl head is the last thing to receive the heated water
therefore for high boost applications like Sykine has used on his datsun 1200 coupe
with e85 A12 making 160hp atw, reverse cooling the the B6 head using the rwd front
attachment is what Im going for so the e-water pump I used will suck the water out
from the side of the passenger side of the block.
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act, Big Brother is watching you - George Orwell United we stand, Divided we fall - Aesop  NAMES IN JAPANESE - LOOKING FOR VB10 SHELL http://iamthewitness.com/ZionistControlOfBritain.html   lovely piece! http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=24688
On further thought today, Im going reverse flow for my twin cammer early A12 with A14 crank and 81mm bores
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act, Big Brother is watching you - George Orwell United we stand, Divided we fall - Aesop  NAMES IN JAPANESE - LOOKING FOR VB10 SHELL http://iamthewitness.com/ZionistControlOfBritain.html   lovely piece! http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=24688
D
 
Ive been thinking about the reverse flow concept, and I have a few questions
 
I assume that once the water has been drawn from the block by the pump that it then has to push the water up the radiator to the top outlet before returning back to the head? or do you run the output hose form the pump to the top radiator outlet to allow gravity to pull the water thru normally?
 
If pumping into the bottom of the radiator, then does an electric pump have the guts to push the water up?
Would you need to convert from a top/bottom tank to a side/side tank setup in the radiator?
 
Whilist I completly understand that putting the cooled water into the head first provides better cooling, surely going into the back of the head is better still as the water is forced from back to front, where as when you draw and push from the front, at least some of the water that you want at the back of the head will shortcut past No1 straight to suction.
68 4 Door project (http://www.datsun1000.com/TopicView.asp?TopicID=668)
Earth First!!! We Can Mine The Other Planets Later
Youve made me rethink the whole process Reubs and on looking at how the original radiator works, the reverse flow idea used by some A series racers is fine as their pumps are not used for long periods of time in a race so can expect good durability unlike the streeters.
 
It will be easier and better for the e-pump to use the original flow design of the A series, even with the twin cam head its easier to make sure the headgasket holes are biased correctly to suit flow like on the A series head.
 
The headgasket determines alot of this so no need to worry whether it flows from the back or the front of the head, for me I just dont want that extra plumbing for the back of the head when you can have it like on the MX5 setup from the front.
 
On the A series head I expected there are more water holes biased from the rear to make sure water runs across from the bottom front of the block up to the bores where the first cms of combustion take place then up through the back of the head then flows out towards the front.
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act, Big Brother is watching you - George Orwell United we stand, Divided we fall - Aesop  NAMES IN JAPANESE - LOOKING FOR VB10 SHELL http://iamthewitness.com/ZionistControlOfBritain.html   lovely piece! http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=24688
D
 
Its a hard one and Im still not sure on the best setup.
 
That link I posted shows a really good setup for running the water to the back of the head using  a thermo houusing from a Kia sephia and a rad hose from a Chevy escalade. The rad hose happens to have all the bend sin the right spots and is the right diameter.
From the photos ive seen, it sits under the intake manifold so its hidden anyways.
 
The Mx5 crowd seem to rave about it as pulling water from the front seems to cause them issues in hi-performance motors.
 
And it seems that the east-west configurations of the B6 motor are also setup this way from factory.
 
But
The convience of using a front thermostat housing is very appealing, and it seems to work for the on the A-series just fine.
 
Im expecting that space will be the deciding factor as to where I put the thermostat housing. Im thinking that there wn be space at the back of the head anyways, so that will decide it for me.
68 4 Door project (http://www.datsun1000.com/TopicView.asp?TopicID=668)
Earth First!!! We Can Mine The Other Planets Later
http://www.miataturbo.net/engine-performance-56/purpose-coolant-reroute-64305/
 
more on the coolant reroute
 
http://www.miataturbo.net/engine-performance-56/very-different-coolant-reroute-40479/
 
D This is a thread about reverse cooling just like you have been thinking
 
http://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/what-you-think-his-coolant-reroute-52203/
and another setup
 
http://www.miataturbo.net/general-miata-chat-9/beginning-my-spacerless-coolant-reroute-12027/
a setup not using a spacer at the back of the head! Good for the crampted engine bay of the 1000!

It seems that re-routing the coolant in various ways is the prefered method.
68 4 Door project (http://www.datsun1000.com/TopicView.asp?TopicID=668)
Earth First!!! We Can Mine The Other Planets Later
Interesting links thank you Reubs very resourcefull!
 
I think the way the A series bottom end is designed with a custom headgasket similar in bias to suit the A series head flow would be the best option for front thermo stat position. The A series blocks seem to have less webbing and better flow than the B6 and the cast metallurgy could be better than Mazdas? Either way only very high hp could be an issue in B6 rwd but it seems in Japan this is not an issue? It looks like some simple holes on the head gasket and back of twin cam head could be enough. Also are you thinking of more than 200hp atw? ideally you want massive response with 200hp and 150lbs torque at max but with flat rather than exponential curve.
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act, Big Brother is watching you - George Orwell United we stand, Divided we fall - Aesop  NAMES IN JAPANESE - LOOKING FOR VB10 SHELL http://iamthewitness.com/ZionistControlOfBritain.html   lovely piece! http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=24688
D
 
As for actual HP atw, I dot really know what to expect. I dont have a HP figure in mind as such. I guess if I had to put a number on it, im aiming for around 130-150 atw, but If I get more than that without major modifications, then ill take it. Im not modifing the head at all. Im planning of running stock stuff where I can as aftermarket items just seem way to pricey. Running the t25 (300zx) with efi and intercooler  should hit the 150hp mark I feel with realibility. 150hp atw in a dat will be enough... at least to start with!!
 
The recurring theme with the coolant reroute that the mazda nuts speak about is the uneven cooling that they get with the B6 motor. No4 seems to get too hot and cause them problems.
It seems that in the stock form, that it isnt much of a problem, just once you modify that the re-route is a reccommended modification.
 
Is there any benefit from running from the front instead of the back?
With the fancy timing cover, to run from the front, means that I will have to cut a hole for the pipe, which I am not keen to do. It also means that it has to be a custom thermostat housing as nothing std will fit with that plate there.
 
As Im yet to fix the head to the block (hopefully in the next few weeks if paychecks permits) Ill post up some pics of the situation.
 
The more I think about it, the more Im thinking that Ill need to run from the back as I dont want to cut into the front of the timing cover. The benefit of even cooling is just a bonus, and the kia sephia/chevy excalade pipe setup looks very tidy
68 4 Door project (http://www.datsun1000.com/TopicView.asp?TopicID=668)
Earth First!!! We Can Mine The Other Planets Later
Im not going to bother with reverse flow as you cant use gravity feeding then from the radiator.
 
Reubs you dont have to cut anything out of the front, the provision is already there
 
Just pop that welsch plug, put the RWD thermostat housing there, drill and tap the holes needed to secure it etc.
 
The rear cooling issue wont be an issue for us A series dudes also especially if we use the rear water passages on the block by drilling the back of the head for it or enlarge the rear holes to have more bias there.
 
The plumbing from the front will just go to your stock but 3 core radiator entry point and gravity feed back down to bottom exit and into the block again. Now thats closer to the A series design.
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act, Big Brother is watching you - George Orwell United we stand, Divided we fall - Aesop  NAMES IN JAPANESE - LOOKING FOR VB10 SHELL http://iamthewitness.com/ZionistControlOfBritain.html   lovely piece! http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=24688
Hmm very true.

Since the motor is not yet in the car yet, I can let this rest for the meantime. I'm kinda leaning towards the front setup since it would be easier for plumbing though.

Now onto the next topic...

what about modification to the head?
Porting?
Bigger valves?
Double valve springs?
Roller rockers?

Since I am going to be ceramic coating the head in places (chamber, valves, ports) it would seem like before coating is the best time to do mods, else the coatings are a waste of time.

Should I just be happy with the std head setup and not get too greedy?

Since the vast majority of power in a motor is mostly developed in good head design and modifications/charactistics, I feel that I should focus my efforts there.

Since the block that I am planning to use is only bored to 77mm, which should clear the valves, going to bigger valves would mean I might have to notch the block or bore out again, which is starting to sound like its getting out of hand.





68 4 Door project (http://www.datsun1000.com/TopicView.asp?TopicID=668)
Earth First!!! We Can Mine The Other Planets Later
The head is fine as it is, no need for anything fancy, cams act directly over valves or cam over bucket design.
Leave that as it is an use the block as it is, after all e85 cools and makes more hp than petrol.
Even e85 with 77mm bores will make more hp than petrol with 78mm bores.
 
keep it simple and go for good tuning and a good quality bb turbo
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act, Big Brother is watching you - George Orwell United we stand, Divided we fall - Aesop  NAMES IN JAPANESE - LOOKING FOR VB10 SHELL http://iamthewitness.com/ZionistControlOfBritain.html   lovely piece! http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=24688
Thanks D

I was originally going to keep the head std, but then had crazy ideas about performance blah blah blah.

Yeah, just get the head machined flat, valves re-seated and seals. make sure the springs are even tension (replace as required) and debur the ports/smooth out. The get the coatings done.

Picked up a complete MX5 intake manifold yesterday cheap cheap, so stoked with that.
Looking at the aftermarket intakes, they all look ugly, "very" basic in design and take up more room in the engine bay.

The std MX5 intake manifold has nice long runners wrapped up (bunch-o-bananas style) with a forward pointing throttle body that points slightly down (about 22.5deg). Perfect for hook-up to the intercooler on that side!

As for the exhaust side, I'm still undecided on weather to go Cast or stainless. The designs of both are essentially the same. Very basic with the 4 exhaust runners coming straight out into a 4 into1 log type setup.

Both are as compact as each other.
The stainless one is cheaper.
$260 stainless
(http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=201117542767)
lighter
shiny!
should be wrapped to keep heat in (not shiny anymore )

$300 cast
(http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=331268143671)
cope with heat better
more durable
no wrapping needed
heavy mofo!

opinions?


68 4 Door project (http://www.datsun1000.com/TopicView.asp?TopicID=668)
Earth First!!! We Can Mine The Other Planets Later
sounds great, id go cast one for kess headaches as the ss prob needs more supports like exxy ss ones do
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act, Big Brother is watching you - George Orwell United we stand, Divided we fall - Aesop  NAMES IN JAPANESE - LOOKING FOR VB10 SHELL http://iamthewitness.com/ZionistControlOfBritain.html   lovely piece! http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=24688
Update on progress

Was discussing with a local wrecker about the head that I have here. When I described it to him, he seemed confused about what model it could be from. He reckons that all the B6 motors have a rocker cover that fits over the timing wheels. Mine doesn't.
Looking at pics on the interwebs, it seems my head is from a Mazda BF 323. I've got to look for a head casting number to help him out identify which head to ensure what bits will fit correctly

Now, I've been thinking about the accessories needed for this head.

I reckon a CAS from an mx5 is the way to go. It bolts to the back of the head and is fairly low profile, so shouldn't foul on the firewall. Certainly no worse than a right angle distributer setup.

Since I am running with the std intake and injection setup, coil packs and CAS, I'm starting to think that I might be able to use a mx5 wiring harness and computer to run the show.

I was going to use a delco 808 or similar and program it myself (my brother is a bit of a guru. He just did his VR commodore), and this still might be the way forward as you can set an 808 to deal with boost. not sure about a mx5 computer.

68 4 Door project (http://www.datsun1000.com/TopicView.asp?TopicID=668)
Earth First!!! We Can Mine The Other Planets Later
Another update

Well, due to financial restraints, ill have to slow down the cash going into this project, which is areal shame. Hopefully my new business will be turning a profit enough to pay me a wage by December so it will ramp back up to full speed by then.

I have joined an MX5 forum (mx5talk.com) and started a thread about this
http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=64696

To start with I received nothing but hate from these guys. If you read the thread, its a bit disappointing but that's life. A few folks have jumped on board, but only to help me with Mazda only stuff. Nobody is really interested in this combo.

I have since identified the head as coming from a 85-89 Ford TX3, or perhaps a GTX Famila, but most likely the Ford.

I have found a local Perth guy for the CAS. Now just chasing the timing covers from a wrecker in Perth. Hopefully they don't want drug money for them.

I was thinking that I should try and use a MX5 engine harness to make wiring easier, but since I will only be using the injectors and the CAS, is it worth still trying to chase one down?
Are there any other sensors that are worth chasing down from a TX3 or MX5?





68 4 Door project (http://www.datsun1000.com/TopicView.asp?TopicID=668)
Earth First!!! We Can Mine The Other Planets Later
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